[BLU/Officers] Chat logs
Bill Ricker
bill.n1vux at gmail.com
Wed Aug 19 20:55:38 EDT 2020
There was no chat on YouTube Live besides me saying i'd take poll counts,
Q&A there ... and saying if no one commented there i wouldn't cherry pick
comments back there either.
I would suggest we NOT publish the raw logs but cherry pick comments
unattributed.
--
Bill Ricker
bill.n1vux at gmail.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.blu.org/pipermail/officers/attachments/20200819/4a2c0785/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
# Sidebar Chat logs for Brian's Aug.19 BLU talk
contents
* Youtube - There was no chat on YouTube Live besides me saying i'd take poll counts, Q&A there ... and saying if no one commented there i wouldn't cherry pick comments back there either.
* JITSI
* IRC
==========================
# JITSI meet.jit.si/Blu.org
(Note, it only names me rarely since it's my chat log.)
Bill
This is chat
16:23
Brian
This is a chat too
16:23
Bill
per Dennis note to Jerry - If you want to include your face in the corner like a conference ,
(a) jack in a USB webcam
(b) install guvcview and set that ALWAYS ON TOP
One other critical preparation for tonight ... use a brush, comb, or wash-cloth to control that cow-lick 😄
pidgin is a old Xwin multi-chat
/join #blu
:yt: You Tube LiveChat
17:03
This Live chat is co-primary with the jitsi Chat ; freenode #blu is alternate channel
18:24
Bob P.
The other prep -- have dinner or a snack handy! 😄
18:32
Yes indeed! And there's no rule against eating in this meeting room, as long as you mute the mike.
18:36
christoph
good evening from dallas tx ...
18:39
Bob P.
Howdy!
18:39
christoph
love the idea that blu went virtual
18:39
kinda had to, MIT went hard lockdown. Glad to have you back, Christoph!
18:40
Bob P.
Me too. Even local travel and parking were practically killing me due to a tight Wed. schedule.
18:40
jabr
hi, christoph!
18:45
RC
In case anyone didn't see this, a nostalgic article about computer user groups before the Internet Era, back when people routinely met up in person:
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/the-golden-age-of-computer-user-groups/
18:48
jm
if you happen to be on a Win 10 machine, do you need the Jitsi client? it seems to work on the browser
18:54
K
Another conference just went all virtual...
http://hpconwallstreet.com/
18:55
jm
I cannot find a way to mute my microphone when I access this BLU meeting on the YouTube page
18:56
K
LOL
18:56
christoph
definitely miss the social interaction part ... (the beer) ... but working 100% virtually is pretty pleasant
18:57
K
We weren't doing CBC that much there at the end of 2019... so not much beer either...
19:00
fyi link is
http://www.millermicro.com/FOSSUserGroupArchive.html
Private message to christoph
19:02
christoph
@Bill thx
19:03
Jim McGinness
I've been meaning to attend a BLU meeting for, what, 10 - 20 years or more. This is my first time!
The virtual meetings I've held with my high school robotics team are usually complete chaos with everyone talking all at once.
19:09
Brendan Kidwell
thank you for joining us, Jim
19:12
Jim McGinness
Thanks for the pointer to OBS, reading the Wikipedia article on it now.
19:13
christoph
chrome😕/restart
19:19
FYI, we've done MUTE OTHERS ... to ask a question, un-mute yourself with the MIC icon
19:19
christoph
interesting ... convert my 😕/ to a unhappy face
19:20
Brendan Kidwell
oh boy, mojibake chat like Skype. type ascii expressions and it turns it into garbage emoji
you can turn it off on skype but only on the RECEIVING side. : ^ (
19:20
christoph
'chrome😕/restart'
19:20
K
REGEX esc characters...
19:20
and i don't even have the font loaded so it's all [(1)]
19:21
jabr
to clarify, #blu is on IRC on the freenode network. Hexchat is an IRC client.
19:23
christoph
yes
19:25
Shankar V
yes
19:25
Benjamin Li
yup
19:25
Brendan Kidwell
I built a rasppi TV system a few weeks ago
19:25
christoph
built plenty
19:25
Stephen Ronan
no
19:25
K
Yup
19:25
christoph
mostly server focused
19:25
Answers on IRC are all "not that recently"
i see 5 yes, several no, and 3 "not lately"
19:27
Curt R
yes overkill
good boot drive
19:27
christoph
AM4 was launched in September 2016
19:29
Bob P.
My closest thing to a custom build is my Intel NUC (6th Gen Skylake).
19:29
Shankar V
thanks - christoph
19:29
christoph
That's what chat is for 😃
19:30
K
Yeah I'm on...
19:31
Oh, stealthy
19:32
Bob P.
I was the one with a Chromebook. I shoehorned Fedora and Chrome OS onto it. So I went for a premium model. $500.00 (ASUS Flip 302c).
19:33
K
Hey, the speaker is just B...
19:33
NUC has a little bit of DIY. Nice package.
There's a fuller name if he chats ...that B is in lieu of photo
19:33
Curt R
when are Ryzen 4's comming
19:34
christoph
Thermal paste or a "pad" in today's
most heat sinks will come with pre-applied thermal paste. before you install the heat sink you remove a plastic cover and forget about it...
19:35
Shankar V
Curt - Ryzen 4xxx with integrated graphics are already out for laptops, desktop versions just came out recently (not yet widely available)
19:35
K
Mike Larabel actually spoke at BLU once
19:36
Bob P.
Even for the NUC, you have to Google around to get the right RAM type.
BTW, my NUC runs Windows 10 Pro and Ubuntu 20.04, upgraded many times. 50GB of SSD goes a long way! 😃
19:38
and the M.2 interface too
19:38
Bob P.
500GB, that is!
19:38
yes it does. But I'm going to add a 2nd 0.5TB to mine ...
tmetro at irc: NotebookReview has a good table of CPU benchmarks and specs. (Or at least did last I looked.) They cover desktop parts in addition to the expected mobile parts. Good for seeing where a CPU fits into the market.
19:39
Bob P.
Today's NUCs go beyond 1TB SSD in M.2.
19:39
I think i could have done 1TB at the time but $$$ the sweetspot was 0.5 ...
19:39
Bob P.
The file system I use depends on which OSes will share the data and the drive or partition.
19:44
Michael Bilow
For new Ubuntu installation on rotating media, I'vebeen using btrfs.
19:45
Bob P.
I read an article which challenges the idea that Flash longevity depends on careful handling and environmental conditions. Unless you're a Corporate User, it isn't much of a big deal.
19:45
bkidwell @ irc : I have an SD card "permanently" installed in the side socket on my netbook with tape over it. :^) … f2fs formatted
couldn't get crypto working right inside f2fs. used ecryptfs on top of it
19:47
Bob P.
SD Cards are much more fragile than SSD drives. I should have made a distinction.
I don't use encryption. On the Fedora installation I probably should, because that Chromebook travels with me.
19:49
tmetro @ irc : many of the consumer NAS appliances have switched to BtrFs.
19:50
Michael Bilow
Yes, everything is encrypted for me. I have an LUKS dmcrypt partition that is used as a PV under LVM, and the the filesystem is on top of an LV.
19:50
Bob P.
I'm kind of opposite on BTRFS. If Fedora goes over to BTRFS, I may have difficulties in my Chromebook.
19:51
Michael Bilow
I would not use btrfs on a Chromebook that has no rotating media.
I do have a Chromebook, running GalliumOS.
19:52
Bob P.
Exactly. But Fedora wants to make BTRFS their default for Fedora 33. This is my concern.
19:52
So you two are agreeing Btrfs is for spinning rust only?
19:53
Bob P.
I see little advantage on a personal computer or notebook. Maybe I'm wrong...
19:53
tmetro @ irc : EncFs (directory encryption) used for special cases. Luks full disk encryption used on everything in the past 3-5 years.
19:53
Michael Bilow
I use btrfs on laptops mainly for the built-in zstd compresson, which is a big win if you have a few GB of e-mail synchronized by IMAP.
19:54
Bob P.
I was using Gallium OS, but it does not keep pace with Ubuntu LTS cadence. Gallium is always one LTS version behind. Fedora is always up to date.
I'll look into compression for email. I use Claws Mail, so I know which folders would benefit from compression.
19:56
Michael Bilow
Gallium works for me because I use the Chromebook for simple things, mostly word processing, web, and e-mail. All I really need from it is the long battery life.
19:56
Bob P.
I should also look further into LUKS.
Agreed on Gallium being fine if you make few demands of the notebook.
19:57
as i understand it, SMR is designed for incremental backups ... not quite WORM, it will let you reuse the disk space the deleted daily and weekly files were
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/309730-western-digital-comes-clean-shares-which-hard-drives-use-smr
20:03
Michael Bilow
It was a scandal that WD used SMR on their "Red" series.
20:03
"WD Red and Red Plus drives are built for up to 8-bay NAS systems," -- WD website
> Western Digital adds "Red Plus" branding for non-SMR hard ...
[Search domain
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/western-digital-adds-red-plus-branding-for-non-smr-hard-drives/
]
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/western-digital-adds-red-plus-branding-for-non-smr-hard-drives/
Western Digital's new marketing for the SMR-equipped Red drives labels them as for SOHO use only and clarifies that this means low-intensity operations with lots of idle time in between—and no ZFS.
20:05
Jim McGinness
The only 'labeled' application where SMR looks like a slam-dunk is the 'surveillance' one.
20:05
Curt R
what alocation unit size was used for the format of the drive
20:05
Michael Bilow
I bought an SMR external 5TB for $90. it's now $100, but if you know what it is, it is not a bad deal.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-easystore-5tb-external-usb-3-0-portable-hard-drive-black/6406512.p?skuId=6406512
20:05
Brendan Kidwell
it was pointed out that there's some overlap between performance attributes of SMR and the goals of F2FS. F2FS is branded as ONLY for solid state memory. is there any work going on to adapt F2FS specifically for SMR?
20:05
Michael Bilow
The main problem of SMR is that frequent writing can result in increased operation counts, which is expected to lead to shorter life.
20:06
If a NAS is being uses solely for incremental backups and archival files, all SMR would be fine ... w/o ZFS ...
Mixing SMR and CMR=PMR in same NAS is reportedly a disaster.
20:07
Michael Bilow
Mixing would have pathological results because of striping.
My use for the SMR 5TB is video archive, for which it is suitable.
20:08
Jim McGinness
Considering RAID5, using SMR adds an additional layer of read-a--bunch-before write.
20:08
Michael Bilow
Right, SMR should never be used as a spindle in a RAID system.
20:09
K
Mann and Tharner at MIT Borg Lab
Oops Starner
20:09
An SMR NAS isn't totally absurd, as i understand it, provided it's low duty-cycle and low re-write, low delete, mostly write-once files. Archival copies of documents, and incremental daily/weekly/monthly keep 7+4+12 backup blob files.
you want big blocks of free space on an SMR ... multi cylinders wide ...
put a postgreSQL DB on an SMR (with or without NAS) would be a horror
20:13
Curt R
What block/cluster size did you use?
20:14
Michael Bilow
I also chose to format my 5TB SMR as exFAT so it could be read by Linux or Windows, and the encryption is Veracrypt for the same reason of dual compatibility. Ths may not be technically optimal, but it meets the goals.
Block size can be queried directly from the device.
20:16
Bob P.
Epson printers on Linux also work. Epson publishes Linus drivers made just for Ubuntu.
20:17
christoph
lsblk -o NAME,PHY-SeC
NAME PHY-SEC
sr0 512
vda 512
├─vda1 512
└─vda2 512
├─vg_rhel-root 512
├─vg_rhel-swap01 512
└─vg_rhel-tmp 512
example
20:18
Michael Bilow
# hdparm -I /dev/sda
20:18
Curt R
I have an old cannon printer that I was surprised worked with a recent ver of linux
20:18
Michael Bilow
Logical Sector size: 512 bytes
Physical Sector size: 4096 bytes
20:19
Sectors and Cylinders on an SSD /dev/sda seems a trifle skewmorhic
20:19
Bob P.
When I use Clonezilla, it gives similar info for a single stand-alone USB spinning platter drive.
20:20
Michael Bilow
Yes, but the virtual file system in Linux abstracts everything that way, and that's what filesystems see.
20:20
Curt R
ryzen 4xxxG = Vega ??
20:21
Older printers can be more likely supported for Linux than brand new !
(I'm a little discouraged with how hard it is to find printers that still have Ethernet jack instead of WiFI only.)
20:23
Bob P.
My new Epson all in opne has USB, but not Ethernet.
20:24
Makes sense with an all-in-one since that's presumed to be within arms reach for scanning
20:25
Bob P.
Yeah, scanning -- Don't get me started about SANE configuration!
20:26
which reminds me i need to set up my flatbed scanner for a project
SANE sometimes just works ... but ...
20:26
Bob P.
Yeah!
20:26
Jim McGinness
(Old printers: I just revived my 35-year-old HP LJ2100 by replacing a ethernet-to-Parallel print server box.)
20:27
Bob P.
Fortunately, my new all in one worked on the fourth try at SANE configuration. 😠
Thanks for all the info. I really learned a lot this evening! Lots more to look further into.
20:29
epp
Thank you.
20:29
K
This was informative... I need to go buy a new system...
20:30
E
Thank you Brian
20:30
Shankar V
Thank you Brian -- this was extremely informative!
20:31
Brendan Kidwell
this is the first BLU meeting I've attended for years because I moved to New York City. I'm glad I joined today
20:32
Ryzen3
sudo hdparm -I /dev/sdc
20:34
epp
I was hearing occasional 'whooshing' sounds coming through and the screen controls appeared each time. Rather annoying.
20:34
Ryzen3
Logical/Physical Sector size: 512 bytes
device size with M = 1024*1024: 0 MBytes
device size with M = 1000*1000: 0 MBytes
cache/buffer size = unknown
20:34
Jim McGinness
I saw that too.
(the whooshing sound)
20:35
Ryzen3
lsblk -o NAME,PHY-SeC
sdc 4096
20:36
Jim McGinness
I learned quite a few new things!
20:36
Ryzen3
Thanks very much for taking the time 😃
20:36
Jim McGinness
Bye all.
20:36
Stephen Ronan
Thanks, Brian!!
20:36
Brian
TY TY
20:37
RC
thanks and cheers
20:37
Glad to have multiple distant-remotes able to join ... we'll take the silver-linings where we can!
===================
# IRC Freenode #blu
(05:14:47 PM) The topic for #blu is: Boston Linux and Unix Group | http://www.blu.org
(05:14:47 PM) Topic for #blu set by rajiv!~rajiv at unaffiliated/rajiv at 12:52:24 PM on 03/01/2015
(05:46:54 PM) brian_ left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(06:22:54 PM) jabr_: Live stream of tonight's BLU meeting is active at https://youtu.be/4sLnWPuXFsA
(06:23:21 PM) billN1VUX: This IRC will serve as an alternate backchannel for Q&A in parallel with YouTube's chat
(06:29:12 PM) billN1VUX: @tmetro the streams are up
(07:08:48 PM) bkidwell [~bkidwell at vicky2.xen.prgmr.com] entered the room.
(07:09:26 PM) jmcgnh [~jmcgnh at wikipedia/jmcgnh] entered the room.
(07:22:07 PM) billN1VUX: (this is backchannel for the BLU meeting which is going LIVE NOW )
(07:22:27 PM) bkidwell: I'd rather use IRC because I can't figure out how to move chat to a new window in jitsi
(07:22:39 PM) bkidwell: text chat bridge bots are troublesome
(07:22:50 PM) jmcgnh: ditto
(07:22:58 PM) billN1VUX: yes, it obscures the screen if you only have one window :-/
(07:23:16 PM) tmetro1 [~tmetro at 146.115.147.46] entered the room.
(07:24:32 PM) billN1VUX: ( With StreamYard, the bridge is one-way, all three syndicated CDN streams feed their chats' contents to the Host console, but no cross-feed between )
(07:25:48 PM) jmcgnh: My response would be 'no'. I last built a box from parts in 1998.
(07:25:50 PM) tmetro1: Not in last 3 years. Lots of times prior.
(07:25:51 PM) billN1VUX: (i'll take poll counts here)
(07:27:25 PM) billN1VUX: Totals - i see 5 yes, several no, and 3 "not lately"
(07:29:43 PM) tmetro1: At those storage capacities I'd use a Pi 4 rather than Ryzen.
(07:31:11 PM) billN1VUX: :-D
(07:35:14 PM) billN1VUX: Christophe says it's a "thermal pad"
(07:35:21 PM) tmetro1: NotebookReview has a good table of CPU benchmarks and specs. (Or at least did last I looked.) They cover desktop parts in addition to the expected mobile parts. Good for seeing where a CPU fits into the market.
(07:37:43 PM) billN1VUX: mind if i paste that to the other chat?
(07:38:29 PM) tmetro1: you can copy anything I post here
(07:38:48 PM) billN1VUX: thanks. I will cherry pick ...
(07:40:49 PM) tmetro1: (There may be Matrix integrations to 2-way mirror chat between it and YouTube. Definitely with IRC. Unlikely with Jitsi.)
(07:41:53 PM) billN1VUX: if i wanted automation for merging chats, with large audience, I'd use StreamYard ... previous comment was cross-chat-bots cause more trouble than worth
(07:43:24 PM) tmetro1: What about drive burn-in?
(07:44:54 PM) billN1VUX: burn-in meaning stress it to clear the bathtub curve, or what?
(07:44:59 PM) bkidwell: I have an SD card "permanently" installed in the side socket on my netbook with tape over it. :^) … f2fs formatted
(07:45:14 PM) bkidwell: couldn't get crypto working right inside f2fs. used ecryptfs on top of it
(07:47:54 PM) billN1VUX: M.B. > For new Ubuntu installation on rotating media, I'vebeen using btrfs.
(07:48:12 PM) billN1VUX: Bob P. > I read an article which challenges the idea that Flash longevity depends on careful handling and environmental conditions. Unless you're a Corporate User, it isn't much of a big deal.
(07:48:17 PM) tmetro1: billN1VUX: yes, and multiple passes for spinning rust, but single pass for solid state. Either way you're forcing reallocation of bad blocks and testing for infant mortality.
(07:49:31 PM) billN1VUX: IIRC, Brian did not do a burn-in prior to rclone.
(07:49:37 PM) tmetro1: many of the consumer NAS appliances have switched to BtrFs.
(07:50:49 PM) billN1VUX: M.B. > Yes, everything is encrypted for me. I have an LUKS dmcrypt partition that is used as a PV under LVM, and the the filesystem is on top of an LV.
(07:52:15 PM) tmetro1: EncFs (directory encryption) used for special cases. Luks full disk encryption used on everything in the past 3-5 years.
(07:54:57 PM) bkidwell: advice: … and moving gigabytes of data to Bluray for cold storage takes LOTS of time
(07:55:08 PM) billN1VUX: :-D
(07:55:15 PM) bkidwell: (use 2 bluray discs per batch, to ensure you can read it years later)
(08:15:18 PM) mog [~mog at fsf/member/mog] entered the room.
(08:15:40 PM) mog: whats the jitsi room name?
(08:15:54 PM) billN1VUX: https://meet.jit.si/Blu.org
(08:15:58 PM) mog: thanks
(08:16:22 PM) billN1VUX: Michael Bilow > I also chose to format my 5TB SMR as exFAT so it could be read by Linux or Windows, and the encryption is Veracrypt for the same reason of dual compatibility. Ths may not be technically optimal, but it meets the goals.
(08:17:54 PM) billN1VUX: MB cont > My use for the SMR 5TB is video archive, for which it is suitable.
(08:37:06 PM) jmcgnh: I'm glad to have the opportunity to join this meeting.
(08:37:42 PM) billN1VUX: Glad to have multiple distant-remotes able to join ... we'll take the silver-linings where we can!
(08:37:45 PM) mog: same havent been in far to long
(08:39:17 PM) jmcgnh: In some ways, it came a tiny bit late for me - I just pulled the trigger on buying another old Dell R210 II server and now it'll be quite some time before I'm going to be in a position to consider building something from scratch.
More information about the Officers
mailing list